Be Disclaimed

"It is no good to try to stop knowledge from going forward. Ignorance is never better than knowledge."
Enrico Fermi

September 20, 2005


This post is as you see it is as a result of a number of rewrites, tweaks and random deletions. It has rapidly expanded from it's original premise. In the beginning, I was going to call this post 'Stuff', with random comments name it...stuff. However, after the events in London, I decided to rename it 'Intolerance'. This is because it alluded to a few things that were relevant....and I decided to cover them under a single banner. Confused? Excellent!

Of course, since the events on the 7th July, there have been a number of incidents that have occurred, which I thought I'd comment upon.

I have a bit of a problem......why do people have to hate each other? I went to a multinational school in a foreign country, and when it was at its busiest, there were about 1000 students of around 110 different nationalities. There was never any hassle. Incidentally this was in a Muslim country.

There was an implicit understanding to living in that live and work there on the condition that you obey the law. Break the law and you would find yourself being deported and unable to return....blacklisted in fact.

Now, people think that because the Government here in the UK has decided to enforce the rules of the land, it is being racist etc. live here, you follow the is quite simple really.

There have been articles such as Cleric compares Blair to Hitler. People are comparing him to Saddam Hussein. Pardon? As far as I am aware, people are not being forced to live in ghettos, caged, tortured, gassed, executed, or even being systematically eradicated etc.

One of the things that I don't understand is it is said, that the Government is targeting Muslims. Yes...and no. It just so happens that the people responsible for the atrocities in London are muslims of an extremist nature. The no, is because the majority are law-abiding Muslims who are 'British' and contribute to society.

Generalising by those that have the most to fear...i.e. murderers, which is what they are, does not help. Of course, that is what they want. They want the wider Muslim community to be worried. These violent people want the community to protect them....for what? It only causes unnecessary grief and hassle....and suspicion unfortunately.

Perhaps the problems that there are between different nationalities, 'ethnic groups' etc. are due to a lack of understanding, no integration (whatever that is)....which may be through choice. Of course, that doesn't mean that there aren't people out to cause trouble....from either side of an argument.

There is a possibility that some are causing trouble on purpose, creating tension where there hasn't been before. Having said that, look at Northern Ireland...years of killing...and for what? Catholics and Protestants killing each other, and they turn on the British Army who get killed because they were sent in to try and stop it. Confused?

Shia and Sunni Muslims are the two major branches of Islam, and they have their disagreements over their interpretations...and that is before all the different subsects that there are within Islam.

Look at the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Since the death of Yasser Arafat, it appears that the various terrorist groups have decided to fight for leadership. It is quite saddening to realise that probably the vast majority of Palestinians are peaceful and want the killing and suffering to end. It may surprise you to know that not all Palestinians are Muslim, some of them are Christians.

Admittedly it is not one-way traffic...some of the Israeli settlers are as combative as the Palestinian groups getting people killed. The sad thing about all of the problems in the Middle East is that both sides appear to be taught to hate the other.

There appear to be very few people willing to try and create a solution. This is a very dangerous position to take it seems, as some from both sides do not want it to happen, and unfortunately, peacemakers like Yitzhak Rabin have been killed for their efforts.

It should be noted that it was the Arabs who invaded Israel after the British left. Understandably, the Israelis were forced to fight for their very survival. Their victory cost many lives on both sides, but gave Israel the belief that they could defend their country.

Update : The evacuation of the Gaza Strip of the Israeli settlers could be the start of something which benefits both Israelis and Palestinians. Worth keeping an eye on.

There was a site I came across (address of I have forgotten) that had a list of the current conflicts in the world, which involved Muslims.....and there seemed to be an awfully large number of them. Why?

Why are there large numbers of Muslims determined to kill people? Is it some kind of inferiority complex or something? You wouldn't think that at one time, Islam was at the forefront of science, technology, and literature. Muslims were known as learned (as in learn ed) scholars all over the world. It is because of Islam that many of the Greek and Roman advances were kept safe when the Church decided that Knowledge was bad for the people during the Dark Ages.

There were people such as Sultan Saladin, or Salah al-Din Yusuf (depending on what you read, or Salah ad-din, Yusuf ibn Ayyub. Spellings vary depending on the source). He united and led the Muslim world, and recaptured Jerusalem. Yet he did not kill those he captured, unlike the actions of the Christians in the past. Indeed when he met King Richard I, the Lionheart, he provided supplies when those of the Christian armies were running low. He had respect not only from Muslims, but also from those he fought against.

Under his rule, there was a cultural renaissance, with the creation of mosques and colleges.

Much of our knowledge of mathematics and astronomy is due to Islam. Islam covered a large part of the world from the birthplace in what was to become Saudi Arabia, to Spain in the West, and far to the East. They were a major trading entity, such that merchants and scholars from all around travelled to the Muslim lands.

....and then something happened. It is as though they forgot who they were...and what they stood for.

Now what do we have?

Well....there appear to be a large number of extremists (so-called 'militants', though I'd rather called them murdering psychopaths), who appear to be taking over and spreading death and destruction worldwide.

Look at Iraq. The majority of deaths of Iraqis are not caused by the US, British and other armies. They are caused by the 'insurgents'...who are everyone blames the Americans. Why?

What surprises me is that the moderates are unable, or unwilling to put the extremists down like the rabid dogs that they are. This has got to change. I don't know if people have their heads in the sand, or are actively being silly about it. I have been browsing a few blogs from time to time, and it appears that there are a number of Muslims who are against violence, and are adamant that the extremists have to be dealt with.

However they appear to be the small voices in the wilderness. Why? Why are they the only ones that make the point. Why are the extremists the ones with the media coverage?

It has to change. It's about time the media starved the extremists of oxygen. Don't give them the publicity, lets focus on those that actually like living here, and are helping the community. Let's focus on people like Dr Zaki Badawi and the work of the Muslim College in London.

Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism - This is a site worth looking at. They have a number of interesting proposals. Personally I believe they have missed a radical idea. Why not make Jerusalem an independent city state, like the Vatican? Have a rotating joint leadership of both Israeli and Palestinian representatives, thereby ensuring impartiality. Alternatively, what about a council...a tripartite leadership of representatives from the Islamic, Christian and Judaic faiths. In that way there can be Israel as well as a Palestinian State, with the hotly contested city of Jerusalem independent from both.

I have a cunning plan..., why don't the violent people from both sides of all the conflicts get put into a large walled arena with suitable weaponry and let them fight amonst themselves. This arena would have a secure perimeter, so if any violent types survive, they get taken out by snipers or grenades before they can harm anyone else. Problem solved right?

Wrong. Sadly people still discriminate in this day and age, even against their neighbours.

I thought we are all human.

Make the effort people. Unless of course you want the violence to which case, can you top yourselves now, preferably in the middle of nowhere?

I don't care what colour of skin or religious belief people are, I just put people into the following categories:

Not Friendly

You see...maybe I'm enlightened....or an alien.

Let me know your considered thoughts in the comments.

Comment by Haloscan:



Blogger Denny Shane said to The MuppetLord...

People hate each other because unfortunately, it's how they were brought up. You hate the same people your parents hate, who hate the same people that their parents hate.

Not Hating has to be ingrained in childhood...

September 20, 2005 1:21 pm  
Anonymous Inquisitor said to The MuppetLord...

" live here, you follow the is quite simple really."

If the above is to be considered a virtue, then we would not have taken a step past the first state to produce law.

Personally, i live on the planet earth, and the rules of the state contradicts the overall welfare and interests of humanity as it necessarily pits one human against another within the national/capitalist framework and causes the entirety of citizens to ignore the plight of those whose states do not have the powe to stand up for the interests of its citizenry. Additionally, a family that lives across various nations are left unrepresented.i.e. muslim nation.

nothing is 'simple really'. That's just how they want you to think so that, with many others, you might produce the statement,

" live here, you follow the is quite simple really."

now whose interests does that serve? Think about it.


September 20, 2005 1:41 pm  
Blogger MuppetLord said to The MuppetLord...

Denny - the children need to learn not to hate. Easier said than done of course.

Inquisitor - I'm not sure how the usage of phraseology such as the national/capitalist framework is relevant. What are laws in place for? Why do we have a police force?

To say this has something to do with business I believe is missing the point entirely.

We have a rule of law, the principle of which is to protect the rights of the many, which has evolved over many years.

You talk about a 'Muslim nation'. Islam is a religion, not a country. People do not talk about a 'Christian nation', even though the same comments could apply. Using the same thread, what about a Sikh nation, or a Buddhist nation?

That is a simplification of a complicated situation. Islam is not one single is a blend of many different teachings. Sunni and Shia are but 2 of those teachings.

Yes, I agree, nothing is 'that simple', but disguising things in complicated language is no better.

I was interested in your use of language, which seems to be of a socialogical nature. Does the use of language as a psychological reinforcement of superiority, not make things unnecessarily hard to change?

Whose interests do your comments serve?

September 20, 2005 2:49 pm  
Blogger Tololy said to The MuppetLord...

Indeed there is more than one version of Islam as is the case with other faiths. I liked the way you did not generalise,muppetlord, in your post. It is sad that some people would generalise and make incorrect judgements about muslims,or any other people to that matter, without taking the time to examine things a bit better.

It is true that some muslims support terrorism,but it is also true that some don't. I have reasons to believe that those who do support it actually do it for all the wrong reasons and without considering the negative effects this stand has on the image of Islam in the eyes of others. It is ironic to find out that perhaps they had originally meant to convey a positive image.

I,too, do not approve of classifying people. I,too, do not care what color skin one is or what line of faith one believes in, I do not even care if one has none as long as one respects me and is,as you said, friendly.

That's a nice post.I like your blog,your lordship.

September 20, 2005 10:44 pm  
Blogger MuppetLord said to The MuppetLord...

Thanks for your comments tololy, I appreciate it.

September 21, 2005 10:54 am  
Anonymous *lynne* said to The MuppetLord...

hey there,

you raise some good points :-)

I *really* like the idea of an independant city state of Jerusalem... I just don't see anyone of the relevant decision makers who would be willing to allow such a "compromise" :-(

September 22, 2005 1:11 am  
Blogger MuppetLord said to The MuppetLord...

lynne - stranger things have happened.

September 23, 2005 12:46 am  

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